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okay we're back now in the apollo flight

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control room where many uh historical

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missions were were flown and i think uh

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selena posting we're talking with now

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was here for a lot of those missions

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right correct so tell us when you

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started here at nasa i started on

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november 13 1967 which i have now

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by looking at the crew ages realized

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that two of our russian friends were not

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yet born when i started here and the

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rest of the crew were ages 12 9 6 and 3.

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so you have a little time set there for

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what was happening in 1967 with those of

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you who are listening

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so how did you get started what brought

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you to nasa what was going on at the

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time i was 20 years old

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in houston with a fashion career

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background wanting to find a job in

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fashion one car and nothing about

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fashion was in the johnson space center

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area the closest was gulf gate mall at

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the time

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so i applied for a job with grumman

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aerospace at the time believing that

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only

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scientists and engineers who were

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brilliant could work for nasa directly

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and i needed to not do that because i

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was not a brilliant engineer so i

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applied with grumman aerospace and they

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were hiring me as an engineering aide

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and i thought i would safely be tucked

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away in a building off-site

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and on the first morning of my job was

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told i'd go to building four in

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astronaut training oh wow it was totally

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terrified

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but the people were so welcoming so warm

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dot davis and margaret tatum and all of

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the men in the simulation branch where

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we worked supporting the limb simulator

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okay were wonderful

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from day one they were so helpful

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made me feel part of the team uh

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made us all no matter how administrative

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or administrivia driven our jobs were

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feel that we were an integral part of

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apollo how nice well we might just

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uncertain here real quick grumman what

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what was that what were they doing at

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the time grumman aerospace was the

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contractor chosen to build the lunar

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module so it was a very exciting time

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for our company they were traditionally

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a navy aircraft builder okay and they're

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still around i think working with

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grumman right the james webb space

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telescope and the l cross mission so

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um but at the time we were all getting

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ready for the moon landing correct

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correct so what was your what were your

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duties

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maintaining the math model logs which

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helped make sure that the configuration

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of the simulator was identical to the

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configuration of the flight vehicle so

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that the astronauts had no surprises

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when they actually were

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flying the limb it's quite a change from

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fashion yes

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although at the time it helped right

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because we all did dress

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appropriately for the era which meant

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the lady across the hall from me who had

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been a kelly girl wore her white gloves

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to work every day so we were that far

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into fashion being proper secretaries

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and proper engineering age

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aides okay and i've you know i've looked

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at your resume it looks like you have

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quite a bit of different um

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different activities you've done over

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the years so how did your career

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progress from there as a female i think

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in the era

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we

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usually thought a woman had to be

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college trained in a specific discipline

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to progress and i didn't find that i was

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so blessed by people who would say would

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you like to try this

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and so my career did progress into i.t

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security eventually and into after being

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an executive secretary for a few years

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after the engineering aid position then

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moving into

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moving to a different contract and then

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back to grumman eventually but

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professionally i became an i.t security

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professional certified in that field and

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took a lot of

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fbi

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military whatever training was available

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because at the time

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computer security was not a discipline

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we could be trained in

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formally so we had to get whatever

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training we could get but i've always

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found that the men who were skilled in

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the systems i was supporting were so

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willing to come in early or stay late

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and give me the sort of one-on-one

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technical advice i needed to make sure

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the security requirements were met so it

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was a wonderful time to be part of this

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whole program and i you know i noticed

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on your resume that you tried retirement

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but it just didn't seem like it stuck i

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feel tired and come back four times

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there seems to be a real need for people

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who are willing to work diligently and

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support the customer fully okay and so

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having begun my career on site and

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feeling that i actually was a nasa

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person in so many respects because my

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concerns were their concerns

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that each time there were

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issues with the contractor making nasa

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really happy

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would be those times when they'd call me

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and ask me to come back

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people happy exactly exactly listening

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you know it's just that basic listening

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to the requirements listening to the

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customers concerns and trying to meet

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those concerns but grumman was a company

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that wanted to do that so since most of

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my time was with grumman it was a good

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meshing of the nasa requirements and

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needs with the company's ability okay

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um so looking back over all the

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different things you've done do you have

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a favorite or most exciting time i mean

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you know it seems to me like it would be

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the apollo time but you know you tell us

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there's been so many exciting times

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there have been times when yes apollo

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definitely when we made the lunar

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landing when from a grumman standpoint

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the ascent stage worked we didn't leave

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men on the moon everything about the

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vehicle worked and then

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when

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we had the apollo 13 crisis and the team

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of grumman people came together to

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support using our vehicle for something

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it was not intended to be used for so

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that it became a lifeboat that was a

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very exciting and rewarding time and for

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me

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from an i.t security perspective there

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were times when

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that field was very rewarding we had a

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goal of meeting some dod requirements

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when we had a dod program here

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and because of the leadership of the

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team that i was working with at unisys

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we won the cogswell award which is a

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national award for security so that was

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very rewarding sort of as an aside but

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all connected with the space program

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because at the time

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we were responsible for making sure the

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software provided by unisys

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was appropriately

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developed for processing classified

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information in a secure fashion so that

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was a very exciting time

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and i bet you met some interesting

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people over the over the years as well

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all through the years

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one of the stories that i've given back

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to the apollo era women

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at the events we've had is the story of

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neil armstrong

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with whom we all enjoyed working he was

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a perfect gentleman and he was the guy

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who would be

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written up in the local newspaper as

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serving at the spaghetti dinner at the

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same time he was preparing for a flight

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he was just a really well-rounded person

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but i never actually had a conversation

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with him i would speak to him and nod

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and smile

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i sat right next to the elevator and

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stairwell in building four so all of the

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astronauts going to the fourth floor

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from the front of the building would

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come by and stand there

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so when he left i came in one morning

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and found that the photograph that i had

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taped to the wall of him

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had a signature on it and it said to

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selena with thanks for a thousand smiles

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neil armstrong apollo 11. and i paraded

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up and down the hall blaming all the

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engineers for ruining my photograph

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until finally a couple of months later i

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looked up and he was standing at the

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elevator and i said mr armstrong did you

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sign my photograph and he nodded yes

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like a sheepish little bullet so that

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was a very poignant moment what a good

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story right and that came to mind

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because i had uh in my retirement i've

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written a book called beyond dna

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inheriting spiritual strength from the

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women in your family tree

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and that photograph sits in my loft

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where i do my work so one day when i had

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edited the chapter about my grandmother

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who had taught me pleasant expression

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it it clued in to the fact that

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something she taught me when i was very

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young had actually paid off many years

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later maybe blessed an astronaut

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very cool fun

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so you know looking back in another

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question

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how have you seen things change over the

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years especially for women

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for women

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i have to honestly say because people

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have asked me this so many times i never

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felt i'm sure there were women that did

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feel

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their

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place in society as a woman held them

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back i never felt that in fact as a

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security professional i was typically

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the only female in the room

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and i came up in an era when men were

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very well mannered

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and i always felt that they gave me

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maybe even more opportunity to have my

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say or make my point i never felt

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that being a woman

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made it any more difficult for me which

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is great that this environment provided

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that that i think the people were so

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willing to let me grow

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even without technical expertise in the

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beginning

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well thank you so much sounds like

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you've had a great experience we